Debate-Facebook Style

The following is a cut and paste that was on my son's Facebook wall.  I have been following it and felt like it needed to be shared here in my blog.  You may question why I would share it, but I thought that it was an interesting dialogue between today's college students.  Even the digression about Pokemon is significant, in that I feel the young men were trying to use humor as a coping mechanism for the angst and anxiety that the 'discussion' seemed to be inciting.  I also think that this exchange reflects the polarity that is prevalent in our country right now.  Those involved in this dialogue are betwee the ages of 20-22.  I only left my kids' names, the others I have merely initialed.  If anyone reads this and has an opinion, please comment.

Our son started it by posting this video clip of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfE4YWXKMQ, along with the comment:  'LOL, Fox news is soooooooooooo bad'.  That started the ball rolling:

M. commented: and all the others are better?? Hopefully you're not relying on MSNBC or the Washington post for your news. Fox News is the only news organization that delivers fair and balanced coverage. Watching any other news media is simply buying into the liberal agenda

Josh commented: oh yeah, they're the most fair and balanced. That's why Hannity didn't let the guest with a different opinion finish a complete sentence. Civil discussion's for liberals and pussies. USA! USA!

M. commented: what's the best news to watch then?

P. commented: faux news ;)

M. commented: good point...it makes sense that they're the most watched news in the country. the most trusted. and almsot all of their shows deliver views from both sides of the aisles. yeah, they are soooo bad...and yet they are killing all the others in the ratings. makes sense!

P. commented: people move mountains for fear and fox loves to deliver that ;)

Josh commented: Fear against a common "enemy" (in this case, Muslim Americans) is unifying ;)

Popular != Best

P. commented:  if only we lived in pokemon world where all disagreements were settled by battling sentient monsters and when you defeated your opponent he would give you clues about how to get out of the building youre in.

Josh commented: Pokemon is the ultimate gentleman's world. Even criminals follow the rules of the Pokemon battle. I mean, when I burst into Giovanni's office, instead of shooting me or swarming me with goons, he challenged me to a battle. When I won he just admitted defeat and gave me a silph scope. Pretty classy.

P. commented: it's true! and his thugs drop lift keys for elevators.

Kirsten commented: bahahahaha sooo ridiculous.

MK commented: M., I'd like to address your arguments and I'd appreciate a rebuttal.

First, Josh never says another news organization is comparatively better, he didn't even imply it.

Second, Fox does not deliver fair and balanced coverage. The organization as a whole has a narrative. This narrative drives their coverage, determining what stories they choose to broadcast, how they portray the stories, who to interview, etc. For example, each morning a Fox News executive sends out a memo to all on-air anchors and reporters. Theses memos generally instruct the anchors to use positive language when discussing tax cuts, the war, pro-life viewpoints and more. Does that sound like unbiased, "fair" news? Also, the vast majority of Fox News guests are self-titled conservatives. Let's take Brett Hume's Special Report as an example. In a study of the show during a 5 month period, fair.org determined that 50 of his guests were Republicans and six were democrats. An 8 to 1 imbalance.

Furthermore, Fox has successfully argued that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media, and that it was their first amendment right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Why would a news organization that is "fair and balanced" have any reason to argue that they can lie on the air? If their tagline is accurate, then that's unnecessary and nonsensical.

To answer your last question, unbiased news is tough to come by. No cable news organization provides it. You have to work to uncover truth, by always considering the bias of the organization reporting, the reporter and your own bias. Al Jazeera does a decent job, so does the BBC. All in all though, news corporations are after profit, and not strictly interested in reporting the news "fairly" or with "balance." Fox is the prime example.

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/11-the-media-can-legally-lie/ (media can legally lie)

Cnn vs. Al Jazeera

http://i.imgur.com/NVih0.jpg

Fox Nation - Fair and Balanced? Not in the least

http://i.imgur.com/icTqU.png (Join your local tea party!)

http://i.imgur.com/fdtbh.png (A blizzard means climate change is false?)

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0426/entertainment-fox-news-simon-schuster-glenn-beck-inc.html?boxes=Homepagelighttop (Story about Glenn Becks mentality and approach towards his work)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4 (humorous short video about how cable/local news functions)

http://videos.mediaite.com/video/Jon-Stewart-Goes-After-Fox-Frie (Jon Stewart exposing Gretchen Carlon's fake on-air personality, Fox and friends incompetence)See More

P. commented: I don't think I am gonna be able to sleep tonight. I made the mistake of watching this again right before bed.

K. commented:  MK,  I attend Western and have sat through countless hours of Media discussions and fox news bashing. I understand the talking points on how the big media outlets are overwhelmingly owned by for-profit conglomerates. I am a political science major and have taken a big interest in watching as many news networks as possible.

I will argue that Fox's News is not completely "fair and balanced" as it has more conservative commentators in its nightly broadcast. But when compared to all other major networks, it is the only one in my opinion that isn't in bed with the Obama Administration. The 2008 election showed us how completely biased the mass media in this Country was when it gave Obama a complete pass on almost every level. Instead, the media focused their attention on making the Vice-President on the Republican ticket look like a complete incompetent fool. They didn't bother to ever ask Obama about his controversial past. They covered for him and I believe he owes his Presidential win to them. I believe that Fox was the only network that addressed some of these controversies and did a decent job of actually providing news on these issues.

I feel that if you have a problem with Fox News, you also need to have a major problem with MSNBC, as they have one of the most biased line-ups on television.See More

P commented:  Pics or it didn't happen!

K responded by posting: www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9fpKVXxCc

P commented:  What a compelling 30 second clip.

K commented: Josh I liked your deleted comment... real classy

Josh commented:  The one where I said Hannity's still a douche?

K. commented: ummmmm... Yep

P. commented:  Well, it's kind of true. The next time I scream at an old man without letting him get a word in edgewise and and twist his words and call him an extremist for defending the constitution please just drag me out behind the woodshed and kill me with a shovel.

B commented:  Old yeller style

B commented:   and gentlemen, shake your dicks, this pissing contest is over. aka mk continue the roast

MK commented:   K.,  I am an economics major at Seattle University intent on going to law school, so I too have studied the issue both formally and on my own time (I suggest Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent").

It's hard to quantify media bias, just as it's ...hard to quantify "In bed with the Obama administration." There is no doubt that MSNBC has a liberal bias, just has there is no doubt that Fox has a conservative bias. I did not claim otherwise, as in my previous post, I said "...unbiased news is tough to come by. No cable news organization provides it." This includes MSNBC as well as CNN, etc. You'll notice a couple of my links compare the Al Jazeera front page to CNN as well as Fox.

Did MSNBC and CNN favor Obama in the last election? The answer is most likely "yes." Did he win because of them? No. Did they do so because they prefer his policies? No. They have a target audience, and are bending, censoring and twisting the news to fit what that audience wants to hear. Fox does it as well. A large part of Fox viewers want to hear that the President is a Muslim, that he goes on to much vacation, that is destroying America, that he is Hitler, that he's not a Christian, etc. This is just as MSNBC viewers want him portrayed in a positive light. This isn't surprising or unnoticed. All I can say is "turn off your TV." Cable news is a distorted portrayal of reality. I will sometimes watch for entertainment purposes (as Beck, Olberman, O'Reilly, Hannity, Maddow, etc are entertainers), but any attempt to discern legitimate and unbiased news from these networks is foolish.

The partisan nature of their coverage has only gotten worse in the last couple years, with Murdoch leading the charge.

P.S. Sarah Palin is unintelligent, incompetent and illogical; if she ever won the party's nomination, it'd be Republican political suicide, George Will has admitted as much. She didn't need any help being portrayed in a negative light. I'm sure she's a nice person, but she's not in the same dimension as higher political office. I do hold somewhat of a grudge against her, as I believe that her rise to fame along with Fox News have unleashed a new wave of anti-intellectualism, branding a college education as elitist.

I prefer thinkers whose conclusions lean right like Greg Mankiw (in the field of economics), and George Will (Journalist). I regularly read the Wall Street Journal (even after Murdoch bought it) and the Economist (my favorite publication, to be exact). I enjoy reasoning with people, and sadly Sarah Palin seems incapable of this. I hope to see the birth of a new conservatism which embraces higher education and uses it to its benefit!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/17/AR2010021703507.html

For your entertainment...

http://www.globalissues.org/article/163/media-in-the-united-states

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=media-bias-presidential-election (one of my favorite articles on bias)

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/9993.html (detailing a study of networks covering presidential races from 1992 to 2004)See More

K. commented:  You make some great points MK and I totally respect your opinion. I disagree with several of your points, but arguing on Facebook isn't the best haha. I do strongly believe the Mass Media in 2008 branded and marketed Barack Obama to his victory... but it isn't worth getting to on here.

MK commented:  I have to disagree with you. Facebook isn't a bad place for a well-thought out discussion as long as it's between two reasonable people. If it's the audience that bothers you, send me a message with your arguments and substantiation specific to my points you disagree with.